Release 2 stock birds

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Andy123
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Re: Release 2 stock birds

Post by Andy123 » April 23rd, 2017, 7:00 pm

Perfectly feasible Buster, but if that youngster was paired to a barred pigeon it would only breed bars even though it is out of a chequer and a black as the strongest pattern gene that it has inherited is the bar.

grizzlecock
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Re: Release 2 stock birds

Post by grizzlecock » April 23rd, 2017, 7:29 pm

Andy123 wrote:
April 23rd, 2017, 7:00 pm
Perfectly feasible Buster, but if that youngster was paired to a barred pigeon it would only breed bars even though it is out of a chequer and a black as the strongest pattern gene that it has inherited is the bar.
Andy123 wrote:
April 23rd, 2017, 7:00 pm
Perfectly feasible Buster, but if that youngster was paired to a barred pigeon it would only breed bars even though it is out of a chequer and a black as the strongest pattern gene that it has inherited is the bar.
But Andy,your right but many fanciers will breed out of 2 bluebars and say they breed a ch.. they are kind of right .but its because of a modifier and its a pencil.or as belgium/dutch boys call crayonne,and 2 blues/lt chs /chs /dark chs ,can breed red youngsters ..but they can only be receisive red..grizzle is not dominate in the single dose,neither are so called dominate violet eyes...its total rubbish written years ago by a well know person who should have know better and others who have followed on the myth churn out crap to confuse fanciers...and actually im begining to confuse myself again lol

grizzlecock
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Re: Release 2 stock birds

Post by grizzlecock » April 23rd, 2017, 7:34 pm

Andy123 wrote:
April 23rd, 2017, 3:40 pm
Yes isaacs the hen/dam is a red grizzle Pied. The youngster certainly is black. You cannot breed a Grizzle from a non grizzle as grizzle is a dominant gene, but from a grizzle you can breed all sorts of other patterning, even solid which is what the black is, bars and Chequers as these genes can still be carried by the Grizzles. Bar is the least dominant, so 2 bars can only breed bars, Chequer is next so can breed both bars and Chequers. With the colour, you cannot breed a red if neither parent is a red as red is dominant, but to confuse things more the colour gene is sex linked. A male has one more chromosome than the female and in pigeons this is linked to colour. In blues/darks the cock has 2 blue/black genes and the hen 1 blue/black gene. In the reds the cocks can have either 2 red genes, or 1 red/1 blue/black, hence the black flecks in red cocks. The hens have 1 red gene. The young cocks inherit a colour gene from both the sire and the dam. The young hens will only inherit a colour gene from the sire. With the reds if you have a pair of reds and the cock has black flecks the offspring will be red cocks and red hens or blue/black hens. If you have a red cock to a blue/black hen you can get red cocks and hens and blue/black cocks and hens. If you have a blue/black cock paired to a red hen you will get red cocks and blue/black hens. The red cocks from this pairing will always have the black flecks as they would have inherited the blue/black gene from its sire. Hope this makes sense.
I have attached 2 photos of one of my red grizzle hens, the first was just after weaning and the second was after she had moulted.IMG_0136.JPGIMG_0222.JPG
looks like a modifier at work,strawbury weaning(british saying) tiger after 1st moult

grizzlecock
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Re: Release 2 stock birds

Post by grizzlecock » April 23rd, 2017, 7:39 pm

I have noticed llouella always sold grizzles of their mostly scottish family like the galabanks ect...but few eards back they began abvertising these families but now clearly showing the totally different TIGER GRIZZLES..strange

grizzlecock
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Re: Release 2 stock birds

Post by grizzlecock » April 23rd, 2017, 7:45 pm

Andy123 wrote:
April 23rd, 2017, 7:00 pm
Perfectly feasible Buster, but if that youngster was paired to a barred pigeon it would only breed bars even though it is out of a chequer and a black as the strongest pattern gene that it has inherited is the bar.
but it could bred pencils/strawberry/grizz/pied/white/black simply because it carries a modifier,also the hen can only fire the 1 colour she carries into her young...but remember she still fires a blank at the same time..and this can be important ..

Andy123
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Re: Release 2 stock birds

Post by Andy123 » April 23rd, 2017, 10:05 pm

I'll be honest with you grizzlecock I have never heard of the term modifier in relation to colour before, always learning :D . I know that pied can appear at any time and actually gets more prevalent in inbred families.

grizzlecock
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Re: Release 2 stock birds

Post by grizzlecock » April 24th, 2017, 5:44 pm

Andy123 wrote:
April 23rd, 2017, 10:05 pm
I'll be honest with you grizzlecock I have never heard of the term modifier in relation to colour before, always learning :D . I know that pied can appear at any time and actually gets more prevalent in inbred families.
yes your right Andy,if you want completely white you just got to pair your birds with whiteflights,or pied together,then inbreed these pieds and as you get down to the 6th-7th generation(not that long really because you can breed 2 gererations a year)they will be mostly white,thing is you need to use the basket to weed out weakness,and after inbreeding close that long you find the males lose size strengh and breeding strengh,and the females become dominant over the cocks,honestly,so when you here the stories of the women amazon tribe i know its true because it has happened here with our small very very inbreed white family......1 of the hens,if we let someone come up the garden path to see the birds.if shes outside .she will fly over to them land on their head and peck their head and eyes...true..and the cocks if any survive in the nest..because.the female young throw them out ..just like a cuckoo.. i know its unbelivable but we were shocked when we kept finding healthy babies dead on the floor. till we seen it happen.

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